Legislature(1999 - 2000)

01/21/2000 09:06 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 85(L&C)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to credited service in the public                                                                              
employees' retirement system for temporary                                                                                      
employment."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JEAN SMITH, Legislative Assistant, Senator Mackie, read the                                                                     
sponsor statement into the record.  This legislation was                                                                        
introduced at the request of Senator Mackie's constituents.                                                                     
She stated that SB 85 is an  effective management tool for                                                                      
the state to utilize and minimize the impact of current and                                                                     
future budget reductions.  The bill will have the effect of                                                                     
allowing employees to meet their retirement eligibility                                                                         
threshold sooner than would otherwise be anticipated.  The                                                                      
employees prone to use this benefit retirement credit are                                                                       
employees with higher service totals on the higher end of                                                                       
the pay scale.  Additionally, employer costs decrease when                                                                      
these employees are replaced through reduced costs to the                                                                       
supplemental benefit system and to the retirement systems.                                                                      
Savings are realized in the long term by replacing tier one                                                                     
and tier two category employees with tier three category                                                                        
employees in order to lower benefit costs.  Currently these                                                                     
temporary employees can buy their temporary time, however,                                                                      
this time does not count towards their minimum service                                                                          
requirement needed for retirement.  This amends Alaska                                                                          
Statutes by enabling the employees covered under PERS, to                                                                       
buy back their temporary time and have it credited towards                                                                      
the minimum service time for retirement.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Last session, the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee                                                                           
amended this bill.  On page one, line nine, after the word                                                                      
"retires," they added "an election under this subsection                                                                        
does not change the date that an employee is considered to                                                                      
have commenced participation in the system under Alaska                                                                         
Statute, 39.35.120."  This language was added to clarify                                                                        
the original intent of this legislation, that employees who                                                                     
qualified under tier two could not use temporary time to                                                                        
qualify for tier one benefits.  They added this language to                                                                     
strengthen the intent of this provision so it could not be                                                                      
misinterpreted to provide that flexibility.  The fiscal                                                                         
impact on this legislation, since temporary service is                                                                          
recognized under the retirement system, provides that the                                                                       
full actuarial cost of using the temporary service be paid                                                                      
for by the employee.  There is no general fund expenditure                                                                      
involved in this proposal.  The Department of                                                                                   
Administration's fiscal note reflects a designated fund                                                                         
source, the Retired Employees Retirement Trust Fund,                                                                            
contracted services are required for computer system                                                                            
modifications.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #1: This amendment allows for the combination of                                                                      
Public Employees' Retirement System (PERS) and Teachers'                                                                        
Retirement System (TRS.)  Senator Wilken moved for an                                                                           
adoption saying that the fiscal note affected about 50                                                                          
people around the state.  He also noted that it was not his                                                                     
intent to burden SB 85 with this issue, but he thought this                                                                     
might be a good time to discuss its ramifications.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
GUY BELL, Director, Division of Retirement & Benefits                                                                           
Department of Administration stated that the department                                                                         
supports SB 85.  He then submitted a related fiscal note of                                                                     
$4,000, for programming time, to accommodate this change of                                                                     
allowing employees to count their temporary service to 20                                                                       
and out, or 30 and out.  It is the intent that the full                                                                         
cost to opt for the service credit provision be borne by                                                                        
the employee making that election.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell then spoke to the amendment.  It adds public                                                                           
service retirement benefit to the PERS statute.  It would                                                                       
allow a person who has at least a total of five years of                                                                        
service in PERS and TRS combined, at least two of which are                                                                     
in PERS and paid (monies within the system.) This person                                                                        
could apply and receive a retirement benefit under PERS.                                                                        
Presently, a person must have a minimum of five years in                                                                        
PERS or eight years in the Teachers Retirement System.                                                                          
This would allow combined five years from both systems to                                                                       
qualify for a retirement benefit.  He noted that this issue                                                                     
boiled down to fairness.  These folks have paid in their                                                                        
contributions and the employer has contributed toward a                                                                         
retirement benefit as well.  He pointed out there is a                                                                          
small number of individuals involved with this issue,                                                                           
roughly about 50 statewide. The individuals who find                                                                            
themselves in this situation (a no man's land), possibly                                                                        
years ago may have been working for state government and                                                                        
then switched from a PERS to TRS program.  This amendment                                                                       
would effectively address a gap in the law, to allow these                                                                      
people to obtain a retirement benefit.  If there is a                                                                           
difference in cost between what the system has built up                                                                         
through contributions and interest, and the expected pay                                                                        
out of benefits over the lifetime of the member, the                                                                            
employee would pay the actuarial cost at the time of their                                                                      
retirement.  This amendment would have a zero fiscal impact                                                                     
because it does require the individual to pay any cost                                                                          
calculated beyond what is allowed by the system on that                                                                         
person's behalf.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson noted that a few years ago, when this                                                                        
was offered, it had an attached fiscal note which read:                                                                         
"This change would not have a measurable impact on employee                                                                     
contribution rates, or the total funding ratio of PERS or                                                                       
TRS.  It would increase the PERS unfunded liability by                                                                          
$492,000 and a TRS unfunded liability by $1.4 million.  He                                                                      
asked if these 50 individuals would pick up the cost of                                                                         
$1.9 million of unfunded liabilities or was this situation                                                                      
rectified by the amendment.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell responded that their actuary had not done this                                                                         
type of calculation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson assumed that something had changed in                                                                        
their system to account for such a discrepancy.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL CHURCH, Retirement Supervisor, Division of Retirement                                                                      
and Benefits noted that the shifting of liability states                                                                        
the obvious, a movement of money from the TRS to the PERS                                                                       
system.  As they look at unfunded liability, they look at                                                                       
assets over liabilities and come up with the difference.                                                                        
By shifting this money, this means that that there is less                                                                      
money in the total assets.  This is where the statement as                                                                      
noted by Senator Taylor comes from.   This represents                                                                           
monies that the actuary has not calculated as being paid                                                                        
out.  In other words, the system has unrealized gain                                                                            
because someone has put in time, but they are not eligible                                                                      
for benefits.  This money is still in the employer's                                                                            
account.  What this has a tendency to do, not so much in                                                                        
TRS, since they work on a flat constant employer rate, but                                                                      
in PERS, it affects the amount of money in the employer                                                                         
fund.  The larger this fund is, the lower the employer's                                                                        
rate tends to be.  When someone puts their money in, the                                                                        
interest that is gleaned on this amount over time,                                                                              
(considering the employee leaves their contribution in the                                                                      
system), this money tends to push down the employer                                                                             
contribution rate.  Through the proposed legislation, this                                                                      
money would be utilized by the employee, which explains the                                                                     
statement read by Co-Chair Torgerson.  Technically, there                                                                       
is fundamentally no change to the rate of the fund itself,                                                                      
due to the amount of employees affected.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Torgerson stated that he appreciated the                                                                               
explanation and added that he would require a zero fiscal                                                                       
note stating as such.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC-00 # 8, Side A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Parnell wondered about this bill and its purpose                                                                       
to rectify a situation similar to one that might take place                                                                     
in the private sector.  He pointed out that people make                                                                         
career changes, from one job to the next, without a clear                                                                       
purpose to retirement benefits.  He asked if this was part                                                                      
of the argument.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell gave an extreme example of an employee who might                                                                       
work eleven and one-half years between PERS and TRS, 4 and                                                                      
one-half in PERS and 7 and one-half years in the TRS and                                                                        
not be eligible to receive a retirement benefit.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Parnell noted that these are career choices that                                                                       
people make.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell added that the least restrictive system is PERS,                                                                       
which requires a total of five years of service.  If                                                                            
someone has less than five years of service in PERS, the                                                                        
only entitlement that someone would have, is to their own                                                                       
contributions plus interest.  They are not entitled to                                                                          
retirement benefits.  This new legislation allows for a                                                                         
person who has at least five years of service between PERS                                                                      
and TRS effectively, entitled to receive a retirement                                                                           
benefit in the future.  This seems reasonable to the                                                                            
department.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Parnell asked whether the judicial system came                                                                         
under a different retirement system.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell answered affirmatively.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Parnell asked how this department would be treated                                                                     
under a PERS and TRS scenario.  If someone only had 4 and                                                                       
one-half years in PERS and then went to the Judicial                                                                            
system, could that person work a year in the latter and                                                                         
still link up for a benefit under this new legislation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Church responded that these two retirement systems were                                                                     
not linked at all.  These have been set up as different                                                                         
retirement systems, focusing on specific groups of people.                                                                      
They were originally established individually and funded                                                                        
separately.  The only current link between the systems, is                                                                      
between PERS and TRS.  If a person is vested in one system                                                                      
they can apply for a conditional service benefit only if                                                                        
they have a minimum of two years paid in the other                                                                              
companion system.  Each benefit and the rate an employer                                                                        
pays are separate.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Parnell added that as a policy matter if it is                                                                         
good for one employee, it should be good for another.  He                                                                       
asked if they had looked at the overall state retirement                                                                        
system to see how many different ones there were and how                                                                        
they could be linked if deemed appropriate.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell responded that the basic retirement systems in the                                                                     
state are PERS, TRS, Judicial, and the Elected Public                                                                           
Officers Retirement System (EPORS) which is a 60-person                                                                         
retirement system and one that existed for a very short                                                                         
period of time.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley thought that the Employee Retirement Income                                                                      
Security Act (ERISA) required no more than a five-year                                                                          
vesting.  He asked if the reason that TERS is eight years                                                                       
is because it is a state sovereignty question.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell responded that the state was not subject to ERISA.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked if this proposed legislation would                                                                          
apply only if someone qualified for benefits in neither                                                                         
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Church responded affirmatively.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
EARL CLARK, former professor, University of Alaska, and                                                                         
Project Coordinator, Department of Public Safety testified                                                                      
in favor of the proposed legislation.  He outlined for the                                                                      
Committee, his work history over the years, the combination                                                                     
of which did not count towards retirement.  He built up                                                                         
service in both systems, but does not have a retirement.                                                                        
He stated that this legislation rectifies a situation for                                                                       
employees that have served the State of Alaska.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CLARKE DAMON, testified in support of SB 85.  He stated                                                                         
that his career was in education and throughout this period                                                                     
he participated in six different retirement programs.  He                                                                       
receives $88 from the Carpenter's union.  He then gave a                                                                        
detailed synopsis of his work history for the Committee.                                                                        
Mr. Damon calculated his contributions to each of the                                                                           
departments of which he had the opportunity to work for,                                                                        
along with the contributions made by the State into his                                                                         
retirement.  As of July 1997, the balance of these funds                                                                        
was $69,000 for his contributions and $139,000 from the                                                                         
fund earnings.  This retirement would work out to be                                                                            
$606.00 monthly, $237.00 for his benefit and $348.00 for                                                                        
health benefits.  After 18 years from the date of                                                                               
retirement, the total unrealized benefit to Mr. Damon would                                                                     
total $584,000.  Based on an average life expectancy, this                                                                      
total would go up to $704,000 at an eight-percent earnings                                                                      
rate of $4703.00 per month.  At this present time, Mr.                                                                          
Damon is not eligible to receive any of these monies, due                                                                       
to the limitations of the present legislation.  Mr. Damon                                                                       
made the point that he was at the mercy of reorganizations                                                                      
of departments and/or reclassifications of jobs.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL DEAN, testified by teleconference in Anchorage in                                                                       
support of SB 85.  He urged the Committee to do whatever                                                                        
was necessary to expedite this legislation.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Taylor requested that the Division of Retirement &                                                                      
Benefits provide a fiscal note incorporating changes in the                                                                     
proposed amendment.  Amendment #1 was TABLED.  The bill was                                                                     
held in Committee.                                                                                                              
ADJOURNED                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Torgerson adjourned the meeting at 10:59 am.                                                                            
SFC-00 (1) 1/21/00                                                                                                              

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